[John Biewen] And to come back to the big theme of the project: whiteness. There's a tendency to think that human beings looked around at some point in the distant past and said, well, let's see, there's some of us who look this way and then those people over there look that other way, and those people over there look that other way, so I'll just describe us as, you know, black, white, yellow, red. But this history on this continent shows something so different, which is that it was constructed with very specific purposes in mind, lines drawn around the definition. And it really alters how you see the meaning of black and white, doesn't it? [Chenjerai Kumanyika] And I've got to say, there’s kind of like good news and bad news on that note, you know. The good news is, it really, when you think of this thing called whiteness, there's not anything genetic that you really share with folks that's different from what we all share with each other. So there's a message in here about our connectedness. But the bad news is that, in a way, the effort to get people to come together under the banner of whiteness has sort of always been about power and exploitation. So I don't know what that means about trying to salvage the idea of like good whiteness. You know, that's something that you've got to wrestle with. You know, when was whiteness good? It’s kind of like, when was America great? I mean, it seems like the whole project was related to exploitation. And so, if you identify that way, yeah. I don't envy you in terms of having to try to think about what that means.